Having become somewhat disillusioned with GW's War of the Rings rules, and having a great appreciation for Warlord Games Black Powder and Hail Caesar rules, I have set up a yahoo group called Hail Sauron as a place for discussion to convert WOTR army lists to Hail Caesar format, and to discuss their required special rules and magic etc etc.
We're also going to try and handle 'generic fantasy' and other realms like Narnia and Warhammer as they crop up or people show an interest.
Feel free to pop along and join up if you are interested.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/HailSauron/
Cheers
Scott
PS Subsequent to this post, with possible recriminations due to IP infringement, it has been suggested to rename this group - it is now called Hail Caesar Fantasy.
The groups new address is http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/HailCaesarFantasy/
2 days, and 20 members and 40 messages. Not bad going :-)
ReplyDeleteGreat idea! I'll have to check it out. I'd love it if someone would do a '40K for Adults' as I really like the sci-fi gothic feel but can't stand the rules.
ReplyDeleteCurt
Good luck and nice choice of name, Scott.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that you are disillusioned with the WotR rules, how do they compare to Waterloo? I had heard that they were quite similar, but I really like the look of the Waterloo rules that I've read so far.
Nate
Hey Nate, Yeah cool eh? ;-)
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I would say Waterloo, from what I have read and understood so far, is more like a tweaked version of Warhammer, rather than equivalent to War of the Ring.
In Waterloo, units still move turn wheel etc, whereas in WOTR the movement is easier and less rigid, which I liked.
Combat seems 'buckets of dice all round'.
However there were just so many 'glitches' with WOTR that several issue became very annoying, and endless houserules were required to make it feel right.
There was an issue with terrain occupancy, and who, what and how many could pass through or occupy, and still be seen and shot at, or see out and shot, or not, which just felt dumb and over complicated when it was intended to simplify and speed things up. This combined with targetting and throwing spears being negated. Oh and if you place your artillery piece on the open board its got a 90 degree arc or some such, but if you bury it in a wood it miraculously gains a 360 dgreeg fire arc... just dumb.
There were issues with several heroes, and their Heroic abilities and Might points which could be power gamed into combos, which just frustrated this more 'regular' thematic gamer.
Certain abilities were poorly defined making the key hero of one side rarely taken in favour of lesser heroes (WitchKing vs Khamul). Gothmog had an over powerful ability which again caused endless discussion over what he could do and when...
Several units were dumped because a special rule prevented them being joined by heroes and thus unable to 'At the double move', which meant 'fast' freely moving ghosts, were outpaced by regular infantry because the infantry happened to have a captain. This 'At the double', or lack there of, made several units and monsters a poor choice when really they should have been excellent choices...
Several 'all powerful' beings, Sauron & Balrog etc. could be taken out in one round with a suitable combo of spells and abilities... Several spells werre dull and under powered or, whilst were just too powerful... and used inappropritaely 'strength from corruption' being cast offensively against and an enemy unit, when I am sure its use was intend to power up your own side but at a terrible cost...
I could go on, and on, but dont want to bore you.
Essentially WOTR needs a major overhaul already to make is sensibly playable. Yet if they do that, I dont really feel like forking out about another $100 on a rulebook that should have been right to start with (unless they offer a trade in on the original one!? - about as likely as Gandalf turning to the dark side of the force !)
Hence I feel if you want to play large battle in MiddleEarth, and like the command and control mechanisms from Black Powder and Hail Caesar, adapt the special rules as required and come up with some suitable balanced spells, then this yahoogroup is the way to go!
Did that answer your question? I may have drifted off tangent there a bit...
Some of the required fixes for WOTR, courtesy of Jamie (not Official)
ReplyDeletehttp://roughwotr.blogspot.com/2011/11/war-of-rings-houserules-2011-edition-i.html
Hello,
ReplyDeleteIs this group still active? How has the transition to LotR been?
Hi, the group is very much active, with over 100 members, and several army lists available for playing / testing, including LOTR lists and a divergance into other fantasy realms including 'warhammer', and thoughts of extending into mythologies.
DeleteAwesome! I will definitely have to check it out. I'm a huge LotR fan and I've been planning to pick up HC after hearing so many positive reviews. The combination has to be great! In terms of miniatures, what would you recommend? As a student, I don't have much free time to paint nor much cash on hand. I'm thinking maybe 10mm or 6mm might be the way to go.
ReplyDeleteThanks :)
Tyler
Good to hear.
ReplyDeleteYes you can certainly play in 6mm or 10mm. I believe Steve on the group originally worked out the LOTR lists for these smaller scales in mind.
I must admit they are not by favourite as I prefer to paint the larger figures, but the game will still play corretcly and will also probably save you playing space too.
As for choice of manufacturers you may have to google about this, as again I am not so up on knowledge of these smaller scales. I know Pendraken do 10mm, or the old GW game Warmaster was also scaled at 10mm.
Hope this helps.
Scott
Ok, thanks a lot Scott. I also have a significant number of the GW LotR models lying around, probably enough to put together both a small good force and slightly larger evil one (as do several of my gaming buddies). Maybe that's the way to go first. Do you use War of the Ring bases? If so, how many would you recommend for a standard unit?
ReplyDeleteNo worries. If you have them and are using the GW LOTR figs then it makes sense to use the WOTR bases. I figure 2 bases (16 models) for a standard size inf unit. One base for a small unit, and small group of individual figs for a 'Tiny unit'. Obviously a monster of one figure is going to count as a standard unit in size eg one troll or one dragon. Cavalry, I am thinking 2 bases (4 models) again as a standard unit.
DeleteI havent tried this out yet but I think it would work.
regards
Scott
Hi Scott,
ReplyDeleteI do not currently have any WOTR bases so I was wondering if it would be more ideal to make my own. Thanks again for the help!
Tyler
They are a bit fiddly to make, especially if you want the holes for the skirmish figures bases to stand in. I tried doing some a while ago in mdf but they were a bit of a failure.... If you are just going to make a rectangular sabot for the figures to stand on then thats easily done. Might be an idea to use a bit on magnetics to stop them falling over as you move them around. 3mm MDF will work fine for this.
DeleteOk, that sounds good. I suppose it comes down to wether the WOTR bases are the ideal size or not.
ReplyDeleteThe use of the WOTR bases allows you to also keep using your 25mm rounds GW based skirmish figures as single afterwards...
DeleteIf you wanted you could glue down your LOTR figs, and adopt the convention of a 20mm frontage per figure (as per HC guidelines)on the MDF base... but of course then you couldnt use them for skirmishing anymore...
Ok, makes sense. I think the WOTR bases will be the way to go. Thanks for all your help! Now I just have to convince my friends to join me :) they are more interested in 40K at the moment despite the fact that they already have LotR miniatures!
ReplyDeleteHi Scott, glad to have discovered your excellent blog.
ReplyDeleteSorry to revive old threads but I'm planning to switch my fantasy collection over to a Hail Caesar based system and I'm unsure if the Yahoo group is still active? I applied for memberhip but have received no response. I don't suppose you might have a copy of the 'Hail Sauron' files do you? I have just purchased the original HC rulebook.
Many thanks.